welcome this is a MIT broadcast out of
the Media Lab talking about what we're
going to do after this immediate
lockdown and how are we going to live in
the future and how can we get to the
future my name is Alex Pentland I'll be
the minor moderator here and help ask a
questions
there's slide Oh which I think has been
sent around so you can post things there
and we'll try and get a couple questions
after each talk we have seven talks from
people who are world experts in their
area and have been thinking about oh my
god what do we do now and to kick it off
I'm gonna ask cousinís Kevin s felt to
talk to us about biological wallet
wildfires all right still early Kevin
please good day everyone a few months
ago we had a rather lovely world we had
beautiful flourishing forests and then
one of the sparks that's just ubiquitous
in the natural world happened to land in
the wrong place and it smouldered it
grew no one detected it in time and now
our world is something closer to this so
before we can think about what the post
kovat nineteen world is like we need to
talk a little bit about how exactly we
can extinguish this particular
biological wildfire so what's the
context we know that it's going to be at
least a year until we get a vaccine
personally I would say that we have
about an 83 percent chance of getting a
good vaccine within a year well before
then we have a chance of coming up with
chemicals that we can use to fight the
fire if a vaccine is the most powerful
the sort of thing you can drop from a
plane to fight a forest fire antivirals
are the sort of thing that you can use
on the ground as long as you don't kill
the trees there's been a lot of buzz
about chloroquine things like that you
have to be really careful because the
lethal dose
the concentration where you actually
threaten your life is about four times
higher than the effective dose so that's
always going to be difficult there are
other candidates there's the closest
amide there's room des Avira that you
might have heard about these could do a
lot to help us dampen the flames but for
a while our most effective measure is
going to be exactly why we're now doing
this call virtually we need to separate
ourselves that is we're not just trees
rooted in place rather we can control
the configuration of the forest and make
it harder for the flames to leap from
tree to tree as long as we're in our
homes
then the forest cannot burn as
effectively because even if one grove
lights up it doesn't set off the next
one so distancing is our strategy for
now but at some point we're going to
need to come out and that's why we need
better contact tracing and other tools
that will allow us to participate in
what you might call the dance right now
we're in the hammer eventually we're
going to be in the dance that said right
now we have a tremendous opportunity
it's really quite inspiring because all
of humanity now is devoted to
extinguishing this wild fire this
particular congregation that is covered
19 but that I would contend is thinking
too small the reason is that
historically pandemics have been much
worse than covered 19 the 20th century
was very lucky the worst was the 1918
influenza and even that only killed a
tiny fraction of the world's population
the great plagues of the past certainly
you've heard of the Black Death but
before that the plague of Justinian in
ancient Rome you had both the Antonine
plague and the plague of Cyprian both
all of those killed more than 25% of the
civilizations that they affected and now
with air travel
we know that Ovid 19 could could cross
the world in a single day so even though
we're more resistant we have much better
tools for fighting fires we can control
where the trees are
to inhibit spread we're actually much
more vulnerable in some ways as well so
what can we do we can work to ensure
that the tools we develop to extinguish
this fire are general because this fire
focusing on this fire is thinking too
small we need to end all biological
wildfires so what does that entail first
this was a natural spark but in the
future we need to contend with the fact
that there may be instances of arson
engineered wild fires could be worse
than the natural variety so how can we
stop that we need to ensure that people
can't just print the DNA encoding a
pathogen that could create a pandemic
and ideally we need to do it without
disclosing what we think is a pandemic
that's hard but we have a project called
secure DNA that's an international
collaboration working to do just that
even if we take care of arson something
might slip through and nature can always
throw us another curve ball so we need
to develop classes of cures that are
general a vaccine is great but ideally
we want to prevent it we can't develop a
vaccine until there's already a fire
what we need are things like decoys
every virus needs to get into ourselves
using a particular lock they need to
come up with a key that fits in that
particular lock very very precisely but
all of the viruses that affect us only
use a couple of dozen receptors that's
why we and many others are working on
decoy receptors versions that the virus
can't use to enter cells but we could
flood the body with because they're
nearly identical to something that's
already there then with omits the sea of
decoys the viruses wouldn't be able to
get in these technologies could be
delivered as antiviral therapeutics but
also through gene therapy as a new
vaccine that could preemptively protect
us from just about any virus then we
need to improve our ability to separate
right now locking everything down can be
very effective but as we all know it's
tremendous
costly in ways both economic but also
social and mental what we need are
better ways of identifying who is on
fire which trees are smoldering and are
likely to burst into flames
which people are asymptomatic yet still
capable of transmitting a virus we can
detect that by deep sequencing serum
which will allow us to detect
essentially any virus no matter how
exotic we can also develop more specific
tests based on CRISPR that are just now
rolling out and we can develop these
again in advance of you knowing exactly
what the virus is because we could
develop them preemptively to every class
of potential mammalian virus that might
jump species and affect us finally we
can do a better job of identifying who
infected whom and who was put at risk
allowing us to isolate ourselves
temporarily if we're at risk while
letting the rest of society go on and
that is perhaps the most effective tool
against this particular kovat 19
wildfire but also in defending against
future ones so whatever we develop now
let's think very carefully about how
we're going to move on after this
because this is not going to be the only
wildfire
let's end them all forever thanks boy
that's super and very inspiring that
there there is hope for for having a
better more secure world I don't see a
lot of questions at this point I think
maybe people are still digesting this
and what something pops up immediately
why do we say thank you maybe there's
room at the end and Kevin S fell MIT
Google him if you want to send them a
note okay so with that then let's move
on ok so next up is Ramesh Hrothgar
who's been working on contact tracing
safe paths
and I think you'll find this also
something that's inspiring thanks go
ahead Ramesh excellent hello everyone
let's talk about contact tracing and
creating a new toolkit private kit safe
paths
that's privacy aware and can also allow
us to move towards a more resilient
society
now we know about contact tracing a
patient in Korea patient 31 this woman
who went to the hospital for a car
accident went to lunch to her church
came back to the hospital and in turn
ended up impacting more than a thousand
people and authorities had to interview
more than thousand people to back-trace
and see who could be at risk and avoid
further spread now this type of social
network analysis then manually is nearly
possible and if it's done digitally it
could create a surveillance state so how
can we avoid this problem well if you
use digital contact tracing to warn
individuals if they crossed paths with a
co 8 plus person we can indeed reduce
the time it takes to inform them help
themself isolate or take care of
themselves if they're at at-risk
population and we can do that using
phones we can use GPS and Bluetooth to
compute the proximity of a healthy
person who might have come in contact
with a covetous person so that's all
great and we do this already if we use
tools like Google Maps you know it
allows you to see who else is around you
and what's the traffic you know the Reds
and the greens and gives you a safe path
and the reason we do that is because
they have a very little privacy we've
willingly give away our location to
Google and we get great utility out of
it you know we understand how the
traffic around us is on the other hand
when it comes to health data in this
case about infections and public health
we are very careful in all the data is
siloed and we had to worry about privacy
and which means the utilities law as
well so in some Asian countries we have
seen a solution where in fact by
reducing the privacy levels you can use
digital tools to help public health
authorities to contain the virus so the
question
for us is vhe both can be achieved
individual privacy and still create a
solution for Public Health
and this is where this is where private
KITT and safe bus at MIT comes in a
large Alliance is creating a digital
contact tracing solution now you would
say this seems very difficult because
privacy is not just about an individual
but there is consent there is
regulations like HIPAA there are trade
secrets between organizations and of
course this is also a national security
issue and after all of that what's the
incentive
I'm already healthy why should I worry
about a system like this now some of you
might say at the same time location data
seems such a low stakes information I
think for fully fine if all of us just
start giving anonymized and aggregated
private data like location
well the identification aggregation is
not at all enough
if remember Strava the app people use
for for outdoor activities release their
anonymized and aggregated trails but
that's ended up disclosing the outlines
of US military bases in Niger and Syria
so even low stakes information like GPS
coordinate could actually become a
national security issue
what about Bluetooth Bluetooth seems
like it does not give away your location
but does give a proximity well the
challenge with that is if there is a
widespread third party app that has
hundreds or even billions of
installations this third party ad
company can start listening to all this
Bluetooth beacons that are being emitted
by these phones and easily create the
identify project risks in fact they're
salivating right now if all phones start
emitting either a token even if it has
some rotating keys so these are not easy
problems to solve and we need to think
about this in a computational way as
well so private kid safe paths which is
already available now in Google
Playstore and Apple AppStore the version
one is simple we should wash our hands
keep social distance and start logging
our personal trails in a diary
completely on your phone not share with
anyone and then download data from
public information and access for
yourself what the risks can be in
version 2 we expect public health
authorities to start listening redacted
location trails and Bluetooth trails of
infected people and with reduction
provide sufficient privacy for the
infected person and for everybody else
all the healthy individuals can download
this data and look at intersection on
their own phones but in version 3 we
would like to reduce the burden on
health officials who may have to do this
personal interviews and redaction and
use computational methods to do semantic
analysis reduction anonymization
aggregation blurring merging publishing
and any computational methods for
hashing and encryption in the background
we also need a safe places web tool for
public health officials where at least
in version 1 and version 2 you would
need a patient to donate on a consent
basic a 28 3 28 day trail of their GPS
and and Bluetooth and the health
officials can redact you know for
example location where you live
locations where you work or even places
that should not be marked as red zone if
you just draw in your own car down the
Main Street there's no need to mark all
of Main Street as you know a red zone
and then also tool that as I said allows
you to an animate anonymize aggregate
merge and use computational methods for
protection and this is much faster and
more accurate than a traditional
pressure interview if you were working
with many cities in the u.s. in many
countries worldwide to deploy safe
places web tool for public health
officials and of course the safe path
app as well and it's a wonderful
alliance that has emerged it's open
source available on github so we
encourage you to participate in many
ways can either
contributing code contributed or
think-tank but also participating in the
rollouts many of the people on this call
here are part of the lines and we are
very delighted to have mentors from WH o
and HHS and many large organizations and
faculty members that are experts such as
Ron Rivest we'll hear later in
encryption sandy Pentland in social
physics Yoshio been here in machine
learning and many other organizations
like Ovid watch open mind Kermit race
and co-ed act now who are part of this
larger team if we have tools to
orchestrate and coordinate among
citizens is not just about public health
if you have enough privacy guarantees in
the short run we will be able to
overcome the challenges of slowing the
spread of the virus but in the medium
term such orchestration tools will also
allow us to restart the economy and
eventually our goal is to create
resilient societies that can overcome
this challenges because of man-made or
natural disruptions to our social and
economic fabric thank you
super ramesh that's really great I hope
people sort of but there's a tremendous
amount of stuff about tracing in the in
the news today and things like that
Ramesh could you take your screen share
off thank you I'm ash yes yeah oh good
okay yeah so there's a tremendous amount
of noise about this and it's really nice
to see someone sort of putting it in
context and pointing out that this is
something that we have to think about
for reconstructing society and as kevin
was saying have sort of more general
tools I think again I don't see
questions coming up here again I think
people are trying to just sort of begin
to wrap their heads around it so Ramesh
Rascar at MIT easy to google him send
him messages so to hear about the the
more sort of tools that protect our
privacy but allow for information flow
we have perhaps the world's expert at
this person who's been at the forefront
of this sort of technology for four
decades
taurine Prize winner Ron Rivest please
run tell us what's going on here thank
you thank you so I'm getting used to the
zoom so it's like all of us so I know
you can see me okay the previous two
talks really set the stage nicely for
this we see that information management
information flow is critical to moving
forward the century and so both of the
projects that you've heard about already
are things that the cryptography has
started to play a key role in managing
the information about what viruses might
be dangerous what the properties that
might have is we've got a team looking
at the cryptographic protection tools
for that and certainly for the contact
tracing as well we have as I said we
want to have a tools which protect
privacy there and we've got a great team
of cryptographers working on that too a
part as well so
cryptography is turning out to be a very
useful tool as we move into the 21st
century we're going to see even more of
this one thing I'd like to talk about
here then would be a different
application where cryptography can also
play a role as one of the most
challenging design problems for
cryptographers and society I think which
is that of voting so as we move into the
elections coming up in November and then
beyond we can ask ourselves what is
voting going to be like both this year
and in the future and what tools do we
have to make it more secure and more
trustful and it's a it's challenge we
have the internet we have lots of
digital technology and one might think
of that the way forward
with voting is to use that technology as
we use it for many other applications to
make voting more accessible more secure
some more usable somehow but if that is
a path that's that we've seen turned out
to be fraught with various kinds of
security risks and I'd like to talk a
little bit about that and talk about
what cryptography might do for us okay
so voting over the Internet is a
commonly postulated dream and we may get
there someday but I think that's a long
path yet so what do we want from a
voting system I think it's good to start
off with what does it take to write to
run a democracy we want to have
elections you want to know that your
vote is cast the way you intended it you
want to know that it's collected - the
way you cast it and you want to know
that it was counted the way it was
collected and so there's three
properties each of those should be
verifiable and so we'd like to have a
verifiably correct result if we can
verify each of those steps we can trust
what the votes were cast as intended
collected as cast counted as collected
and we get the right result but
verification of these things is stymied
in part by the need for a secret ballot
this is the huge the thing that makes a
huge difference between voting and say
something like banking where you have
people having accounts and you get
statements at the end of every month and
you can check where where your money
went and so on - you can't really check
where your vote went quite so easily
the
your vote needs to be decoupled from
your identity so you can't sell your
vote you don't want to be able to point
to a vote and say that's my vote because
if you could do that you could also say
now give me the $20 because that's how
you hate me to vote and so we want to
prevent vote selling that makes voting a
much more challenging application
nonetheless we'd like to have
evidence-based elections we'd like to
have this verification procedure allow
you to check that we have counted and
collected cast collect counted and
likely the votes properly and so the the
thing you want at the end of the day is
evidence that the outcome is correct
you'd like to say you've lost this
election don't just complain about the
penny lost you know if you really want
to check that you've lost here's the
evidence for why you lost here's the
votes you know you can count me count
them yourself or whatever and you have a
pile of evidence that's credible it's
public and that anybody can check so
that's the goal is to have
evidence-based elections we're losing
candidates can check that they've lost
fair and square so one of the problems
we have with evidence based elections is
the trust we might need to place in
software or hardware and we have seen so
far that we don't know how to get
software right software is vulnerable to
being manipulated infected and otherwise
abused and so we'd like to have assist a
voting system which is software
independent software independents as a
term it's become defined in the voting
world to mean whether undetected
undetected change in the software
possibly maliciously insert it or just
otherwise and undertake the change in
the software isn't going to cause an
undetectable change in the outcome and
that's that's the definition of software
dependence and one of the problems with
our digital systems is they're just not
software independent the only way to
create the data to access the data to
check the data is to go through a pile
of software that you need not trust you
don't want to trust if you have to
voting is so important that people will
go to any lengths to corrupt an election
it seems
so we want to have a voting system
that's software independent and you know
verifiable so to date the best
technologies for that seem to be
low-tech which if you're security person
may not be surprising if you're an
ordinary geek it may seem surprising
we've got all this wonderful technology
but technology gives you complexity and
complexity gives you insecurity
typically what the more complex a system
you have the more openings there were to
defeat it somehow so a simple tech is
better for voting and the simple tech
that we have for voting now is a good
choice we have paper ballots you vote on
a paper ballot and you submit that
somehow and it's counted and it can be
recounted and the paper ballots form the
evidence so we may see paper ballots
persist a long ways into the 21st
century and that's probably a good
choice maybe down the road we can figure
out how to make the digital tech work
for us we've got some ideas no mixing
them in a minute but paper ballots and
then using some counting procedure or
some statistically efficient version of
the recounting procedure called a risk
limiting audit can give you confidence
that the outcome is correct so we have
low-tech ways of dealing with that we
try to move online we see that we have
issues the two major issues being one
malware and the other the lack of
authentication we have of remote users
but there are some technologies being
explored before doing this
electronically and I just mentioned the
buzzword and encrypted voting rights
Oita evilly and this enables you to cast
a vote in encrypted form it gets posted
on the website you can check it you can
check that the tally was done right it's
a bit complicated but there are further
two prototype pilot implementations
making this work cryptography plays a
key role in that so down the road we can
imagine maybe having some
cryptographically based voting schemes
which are trusted and give us the right
results even over the end over the
internet but I think that's a decade or
two off probably so right now don't fold
over the Internet
both what are your paper ballots but in
the few player part of the century you
know we'll see things change I'll stop
there
great great thank you very much that's
that's good to hear that there's hope
for getting this right I think this
probably also applies to cash which is
being replaced and people are talking
about central governments and directly
controlling all cash transactions
through crypto currencies and it sounds
like this is something that's going to
be important there as well yes I see the
the rise in Bitcoin and things like that
and I think that but beyond that I mean
you know that they're talking about the
central government controlling all cash
Makana transactions which are currently
relatively anonymous but then would be
visible to the central government yes
yes as we as we make things more digital
we end up falling into the trap over and
over again of building a surveillance
state around us and this happens with
physical location movement as we saw
with the remissions talk it happens with
currency as you as you see to it so you
have to think about ways of protecting
your privacy cryptography is a key tool
for making some of this private it can
protect the identities of individuals
and so I think we need to identify where
a surveillance state risk is and figure
out what the tools are to prevent it
okay super thank you very much
so now we're going to turn to okay how
do we live with this what do we do how
do we construct our society in this
world that's going to inevitably connect
have a lot of virtual stuff and I guess
I'm the next one up so let me see if I
can do that
there we are and so what I
talk about is what do you do when you
have to go virtual and and the problem
is we all know now is is that you lose a
lot it's a wicked problem if you have to
separate people okay because of the
infection but now you lose the culture
of your of your organization so there's
no informal interaction and all the
science says that these informal
interactions the things that aren't on
the org chart are promote better
decisions and in fact they account for
maybe 40 percent of the performance in
your decision-making
so that means suddenly your decisions
are going to be much more things that
have only a few voices you get herd
mentality things like that and that's
going to be a problem similarly you get
this sort of notion that causes this
that comes from a few people who are
very extroverted online and everybody
else begins to feel like they're really
not part of the solution so Trust
decreases harvesting of ideas your
ability to sense the environment goes
down a lot of that is due to poor habits
of interaction we're used to all these
signals that we get face to face and
habits we have for working in groups and
online a lot of that stuff doesn't work
anymore and so your organization begins
to fall apart people feel like they're
just putting in time only because of the
money and they don't feel like they're
part of the overall solution and of
course what that means is your ability
to coordinate and act as a unit
decreases dramatically and finally when
people feel separated from everything
they begin to have our more mental
health problems and
the major thing in maintaining mental
health turns out to be positive social
interactions rich social interactions
online doesn't seem to do it nearly as
well as something that's face to face
but face to face is difficult now so
what do you do well I'm going to go
through a series of solutions and ideas
to help all these you can't do it
completely but you can begin addressing
these problems so you have to manage the
trade-offs between separating because of
infection and coordinating through these
little narrow pipes that are what we're
doing right now so one of the first
things to think about is is is that when
you minimize the physical infection risk
by minimizing the interaction you're
also minimizing idea flow the ability to
harvest ideas within your organization
this is a general problem that we've
traditionally had to address in
government so for instance we're used to
in a group sort of looking around and
saying okay do people agree with this
and you can sort of sense when people
aren't on the same same page and so we
came up with a notion of secret voting a
representative democracy so people vote
for things the leader still makes the
final decision but that way the leader
can get a more certain view of what the
group thinks another version of this
it's more broader for harvesting is idea
markets they've been tried for
decision-making but the idea of people
contributing data is voting other ideas
up and stuff gives you a way to see what
are the memes that are travelling around
in your organization while you're trying
to minimize the viruses floating around
in your organization and in democracy
that's the role of the free press so
those you can sort of think about this
as
you've got a government and you're
trying to run it as opposed to the sort
of more classic way that you think about
organizations to do a lot of this you
have to actually measure things you have
to measure what are the patterns of
communication
do you have silos are the right groups
actually talking to each other online in
slack by phone and occasionally
face-to-face as as possible and based on
that take action and I'll recommend a
couple of companies that have spun out
of my group just as examples of the sort
of thing that you can do not that you
have to use them so humanize for
instance looks at all these digital
trails and tries to figure out where
their silos where there's problems in
communication more generally another
sort of trade-off is try make sure that
everybody is heard so in group meetings
you get these people that don't speak up
now physically people are more used to
that you can detect it because you're
there but online people just forget to
make sure that everybody is heard and
that means people begin to lose trust
and identity with organisation and Beth
Porter who is going to speak next
actually I think is gonna talk about
that
she runs a CEO of a startup called RIF
analytics
and she'll get into that you also need
to maintain mental health and so there's
lots of ways to try to do that you can
have virtual teas you can have buddies
things like that that certainly helps
but too sometimes you need professional
care and there's a new generation of
online health care for instance ginger
IO another spin-off is well known for
guaranteeing professional mental health
support in under 60 seconds and some
large companies have adopted that for
all their workers to combat isolation
um you also need to have constructive
interaction and and that is people
speaking to each other correctly
listening nodding your heads at the
right time or saying uh-huh and there
are companies that begin to do this
Microsoft has a product we have a
spin-off called cogent Oh corporation
that does this for call centers in
particular but also within organizations
and finally you want to consider the
physical reconstruction of your
organization
after this immediate sort of lockdown is
done so we're used to a model of this
very centralized everybody drives into
the city but you can also imagine having
local workspaces in each town
now local workspaces means that the
connection graph for the virus is broken
so it's very slow to have things spread
throughout the entire organization and
of course it has you know green
implications and less commuting time but
it still provides that social support
and idea flow between different parts of
the organization if you have those
people sort of co-located and I think
Kent Larson's going to talk about that
at the end here so um that's really what
I wanted to say you need to think about
this stuff and really take active energy
to be able to manage your organization
in these sort of virtual and semi
virtual things you're all experts at
sensing what's going on with other
people in a physical way you're not
experts in doing that online a lot of
the cues you use to be able to tell when
something is important or not important
a lot of the informal communication
disappears and those are major problems
and you need to take a lot of your
energy right now in particular to trying
to fix those things because they're not
going to go away as Kevin was saying you
know there's going to be more sparks and
more waves and new things coming along
and we need to move to a new normal that
includes a lot of distance
interaction so that's that's what I'm
wanted to tell you and introduce some of
the other people the C so I don't see
questions there so we're doing on time
we're doing good let's just move on to
the next person with his Beth Porter
please
thanks Andy and thanks for the intro
yeah I'm gonna share my screen very
briefly here and let me just make sure I
can actually do it always trick okay
hopefully everybody can see that all
right
so um I'm gonna talk a little bit about
remote work and the specific thing that
we do at RIF but then just talk about it
more generally so you know here we are
today we're all talking about this
causing us to sort of have to work like
this but that's so cozy looking and
seems like such a pleasant way to work
and really it looks more like this which
is that you're sort of wrestling with
your kids your dog your family noise in
the background everything is sort of
cramped you're all crammed together with
everybody else in your family who's
trying to do the same thing whether it's
school or work or just trying to run
your household so there's a lot going on
it is very stressful and at the same
time you're really trying to you know
behave like a professional you're trying
to maintain both social connectedness
with your family and friends and your
work colleagues probably many of whom
you spend a lot more time with than some
of the members of your family you're
trying to maintain efficacy while
working together with others so it's not
just that you want to feel connected to
done you actually want to keep being
able to do your jobs well and you're
trying to maintain focus throughout the
day and it's a day filled with video
meetings now I'll get into that in a
second and again you're really trying to
balance you know work and life and it's
challenging on many levels so you know
I'm just gonna say this out loud a lot
of online meetings really really suck
and they're you know there's a I'll get
into video versus teleconference in a
second but really remote meetings often
encourage
not just silent you know certain silent
voices not to be heard but actually
damaging behaviors lots of an
interruption and a failure to really
connect with other people an erosion of
trust
unproductive dynamics that don't really
lead you to be able to make decisions or
accomplish anything and you have this
sort of sentiment like this this woman
on the video on the image here wondering
like when's a meeting going to end and
can I get on to the next thing and and
now you have a whole day of them it's
not just one meeting that you're sort of
tolerating online or a couple it's all
day and and and you're wondering well
what maybe we don't lose huh maybe we
don't maybe we shouldn't have so many
video meetings maybe we should have just
phone calls and maybe we should go back
to having less sort of in-your-face
stressful I'm in the side of this zoom
box and I mean a wall full you know zoom
images and and sort of feel a little bit
imprisoned by that it's very stressful
there's an article sandy was talking
about before we got on today about how
being in video meetings actually causes
a lot of stress and you know so and then
the flipside is that in a teleconference
you actually have a really hard time
building rapport there's there's no verb
no non verbal cueing or a very small
amount of you know ability to affect the
meeting in that way there's a hesitancy
of people to speak people don't pay
attention says you you get on and then
you mute and then you say nothing so we
put together some technology and a
little bit of machine learning in the
background to produce a product called
riff and it's designed to help people
engage better in online meetings by
providing real-time feedback and it
looks a lot like everything else you use
but one of the subtle things that's
there that isn't in regular meetings is
that you get feedback about who's
speaking
we are privacy-preserving we don't care
what you're saying we only care that
you've spoken and we use just the vocal
vocal record to to do the tracking that
we do
and we only give that data back to
people who are actually in the meeting
we give aggregate data to organizations
to see sort of trends and you know sort
of do tracking of culture and see how
people are doing across the organization
but the meeting data goes only to the
the meeting participants we give
feedback after the meeting is over about
sort of the interaction dynamics and we
have this set of metrics that really
track that speaking time is an obvious
one but we have these other three
metrics influence interruption and
affirmation influence is really about
how people affect one another in dyads
and it's you know if I have a very good
interaction with one person in a meeting
and it ends up being sort of the
dominant force of the meeting you can
see that here in the influencer graph
and if I have a very low interaction
sort of pattern with somebody else I'm
not as influenced by them and maybe that
person and I am not having as much of a
rapport so you get to see all of that in
this metric afterwards and sort of
examine that and and make some changes
and we're continuing to work on other
feedback mechanisms but in the research
that we've done we had an NSF grant last
year and we've shown that teams actually
do perform better on shared tasks and
and make teams smarter they do they do
better they have more trust they have a
better rapport when they get feedback
like this and can understand build
awareness and then control their
behaviors going forward but of course in
all things technology is only half the
story you you can't actually spend the
whole day on a video call it's actually
impossible it creates too much stress
too much attentiveness creates extreme
cognitive load and there's a lot of
science there around what your brain can
tolerate and so you know when we you
talk with people about using ref it's
not just use it it'll be great you know
we really try to be very oriented toward
learning how to be a more sort of
thoughtful video meeting participant and
and have smaller meetings
are shorter and more purposeful give
people active roles and and try not to
conflate what is a meeting where you're
trying to get productive work done with
a presentation or a broadcast which is
really different
even however in a presentation or a
broadcast you know there are some
techniques for giving people more to do
when they're there so activities break
out short breaks something to engage the
listener and those are all not things
that you can just do overnight it's a
thoughtful set of work that needs to be
done organizationally to really change
the dynamic of how we use a video you
can give us feedback about riff we have
running a private beta right now and
I'll leave this briefly up on the screen
just for people to notice if they want
to and we're also going to be normally
you know work with enterprises but we're
gonna be releasing a self-service
version of the of the video conferencing
software called riff remote and that'll
be available also on our website soon so
I'll stop there and give back the screen
share if I can figure out how to do that
but anyway I'll stop there thanks very
much it's a lot about we're not getting
a lot of questions here but I think that
was pretty clear about what to happen
and the importance of that everybody is
experiencing day by day now so thank you
for sharing that with us let's move on
though stick into time here
Esteban you're next and Esteban is doing
sort of what Beth was doing but at a
large scale across entire cities and
trying to figure out who's left out
who's put in and what we can do about it
so Esteban please take it away
you're muted Esteban
I'm sorry you know ok thank you very
much let me share my screen I think you
can see my screen right now so you know
I'm gonna actually build on both Kevin
was talking earlier this about are we
gonna reconnect our society now I'm
gonna actually stress a little bit about
already our society was fragile in the
in the sense of how we are connected and
what are the implications are having
social distancing the fact that we are
going to have probably social distancing
for a long time what is implications of
that in how we work how we actually
relate and especially about problems
like inequality and segregation well
Kenny was talking about this this is
actually the faces we are right now we
are right now in the hammer face of the
epidemics in which we have strict social
distancing distancing policies strict
lockdown on mobility restrictions most
likely we are going to have to wear a
mask all of us in the near future most
of us are working for home some of them
some people actually stay home because
they have symptoms etc hopefully the
armor is gonna decrease the number of
the cases that we have but then we have
to figure out what is gonna happen
probably in one month or in two months
and this is gonna start the face of what
we call the dancing which we have to
actually prevent the second wave event
that one we recollect our society
there's gonna be a second wave of
infection and the way to do that is
probably by using contact race you know
to target in quarantine or to burn
larger gatherings so for example time
when needed this is gonna have a
tremendous cost cost in them in our
society in our business and our how we
work and I'm gonna comment also about
that the question right now it's
actually how we're gonna do this also
before that whether the hammer is
working so the hammer isn't working it
is really I mean effective like people
are actually behaving as they should
this is actually what we are doing right
now
by monitoring aggregated data that comes
from mobile phone or phones we are
actually using real-time data that comes
from another service remember
more phone providers that allow us to
understand where people is moving how
they are moving and if they are not
moving at all on this is the map of the
census tracts in the New York area and
on the left you see what was the
mobility of people before the lockdown
measures on the right your hug you can
see the mobility of people were when
they lock down nesters we're introducing
someone as a weekend of the March the
6th and the other one is the weekend of
March 20th the colors here indicate how
much people are moving and then we see
that we people went from moving around
50 to 60 kilometers per day because of
the committing in different areas to
basically nothing basically right now
people are moving less than 2 or 3
kilometers every day so it is working I
mean actually by looking at the data we
can see that these lockdown measures are
working the most important part of this
is that is not what why people other
people are moving around the most
important part is whether people are
contacting each other or not and this is
actually what we can do also with mobile
phone data and we can see how many
contacts per day people have in the New
York area this is the time series you
can clearly see the pattern the weekly
partner with people get out on during
the weekends to the food places for
example and they get a lot of contacts
there but there was the national
emergency and the school closures took
effect in the New York area the number
of contacts has decreased for around
seventy five to five so it's a 90 to 93
percent decrease in the contest so yes
it is happening I mean the number of
contacts is happening it's social
distance measurements are actually
attractive this is translating into the
number of contacts but still you can see
that there's a received on number of
contacts so that means that probably the
food places and the restaurants are not
the new trenches we don't have to focus
on those because they are closed down so
where is the new trench
what is the contract happening what we
should be focused our attention right
now we should be fucking our attention
to groceries groceries did you can see
here this is the time series of the
where the contacts are happening right
now the fraction of contacts and even
down the number of contacts I know is
very small most of them are happening
the groceries
clearly see that food was work most of
the contacts weren't happening before
and now we're more contacts are
happening are gorgeous so the new
trenches and the new focus of
policymakers and also health officials
should be in groceries apart from
obviously the hospital situation now
gonna come back about the impact of
groceries in a minute the other question
is about well I mean we probably have
all these contact tracing applications
are just you know we have all the
software to work online online but the
question is that how much we will we
will need to implement those measures
for the dance to work and this actually
it's a very complicated question and I'm
just sorry to hear the kind of epidemic
models that people are using right now
to understand this question each of the
letters that you see here and this
transparency is a state it's actually
going from the susceptible dance on the
wind which is basically people which is
not infected going to the Latin state
which is there to the PS thing which is
the pre-symptomatic state to the eye
which is the infected and then depending
on your trajectory you can go to the
hospital you can go to hospital ICU you
can go to a hospital that doesn't have
is you or you can go to a hospital that
goes that has arise you but that doesn't
have dental ATO's so different routes
you can have different routes by having
different epidemic let's say episodes
the question is the red box there I mean
we want to prevent the people go to that
route and the hospitals and the people I
go to that would actually is minimized
so the hospital can cope with a theme so
what we are doing wooden right now is to
use a simulation of tank K agents using
real-time mobility data in the Boston
area to try to understand how many
people are gonna get into the road and
what is the strategy that is gonna
prevent people go into that route to the
red box and actually we found one of
them that is going to work which is
basically based on contact tracing it
requires that people that are at
symptomatic other precinct ematic but
are infected actually are one time more
than 15 not at 14 days around 14 days
but also they need to be we need to do
contact tracing up to
the first contact okay and the number of
contact tracing has to be at least of
20% of the people that have contacted
this person so that strategy works it's
gonna lower the number of people go into
the hospitals below what is the capacity
of the Boston area of the belt Sunday in
the Boston area and this is gravity
requires as I was telling you the
symptomatic people stay home that the
household is calling time for for two
weeks and also that 20% of the contacts
are recovered by a contact tracing
applications finally I want to insist in
two things that Sunday was talking about
our workplace is Kenny was talking about
probably what is gonna happen for any
future for all the babies gonna try to
tell you about more about the social
fabric of cities there are two questions
that I think are important to keep in
mind when we do the dance I mean were
when we are gonna switch on the works
the restaurants the world places etc the
first question is about these cities are
super linear meaning that for example
you can see for example on the left this
is a plot of the GDP of cities as a
function of the total population the
black line is the linear relationship
meaning that the GDP will be linear to
the total population but is not linear
the fact that we live in societies which
are clumped together in cities this is
actually giving an extra value to us so
there is an extra value of being
corrected and the fact that we are
disconnected right now is probably
meaning that we are gonna come down to
the to the black line so there's a value
of being connected and we have to keep
this in mind because we are gonna work
from home probably we're gonna end up in
the black line so we need to be
connected we need to be in society and
we we need to maximize social capital as
I was saying in the title while minimize
preparation the worrisome part is that
you can see on the right that some
people have found that day growth rate
of the coffee 19 infection actually it's
proportional to the population - so we
have to combine these two things we need
a social capital we need a people get
together but we need to minimize this so
I don't have a solution for this but
whatever we do we have to keep in mind
that this a balance between
and the right mistress price the other
thing is this right now because of
social distances all social distance in
politic policies we have never been so
segregated in America in the recent
times we spend our the most of our time
living in our neighborhood we are we are
more or less 100 percent silly 80 right
now this is the average this is a plot
in which I show you houses in the United
States as a function of the distance you
have to travel to them you can see for
example that exceed cultural events are
actually the places in which quickly get
less segregated while grocery stores and
schools are the places in which we get
more negative because of social
distancing we have closed this and we
are actually only going to grocery store
which aren't already segregated so you
have to keep this in mind we are
actually destroying the social fabric of
our cities we are segregating ourselves
more so whatever we do in the future
we have probably to start reconnecting
places in which we get a second whatever
we do in the future
let's maximize social capital I minimize
epidemics thank you super super
so as Esteban said you know that the
point here is is is that these
connections are not just nice to have
they're really the thing that that lets
us be more creative brings increase in
productivity innovation and they're
pretty much exactly the same thing that
spreads the infection so we have a
wicked problem that we have to deal with
how are we going to do these two things
and almost like I planned this the next
speaker is going to tell us a little bit
about that so Kent Larson please take it
away
can't you're I've got it look I'm
getting super how about that your video
seems to be off at least from my
perspective it says the host has stopped
it unable to start video so Esteban
you're not screen sharing or anything I
think it's something the host test to do
is they're going okay somebody okay
there we are okay good great thank you
go for it Kathy Thank You sandy and yeah
I think Esteban created a nice segue for
me I I want to talk about rethinking
urban resilience in a post pandemic
world and urban resilience is a little
bit like smart cities I mean it means
different things to different peoples
and there are many many projects around
the world thinking about urban
resilience these are just a few diagrams
but the reality is for the most part its
focused on climate change you know the
impact of storms and flooding and and
whatnot and they're precious little
investigation has involved the impact of
pandemics there there's a quite a bit of
fairly silly talk about how cities are
obsolete because of density etc but the
reality of cities are centers of the
pandemic precisely because their centers
of capital and culture and innovation
and cities are not going away this is
this is one of the great boulevards in
in a different era last fall when they
shut down traffic for a day chumps
Alizee and in Paris and in a case of
really extraordinary bad timing February
18th
we opened
in exhibition was part of an exhibition
to rien to re-imagine
the shell sellers eggs so in in this
study we're looking at bringing people
together increasing social interactions
minimizing traffic adding all kinds of
amenities we built an agent-based model
that can look at different scenarios
this is an Hidalgo de Paris with mayor
looking at our city scope model that we
deployed there but this is the boulevard
today it's completely empty streets are
empty in in all major cities at this
point so we're we're beginning to
rethink all of these ideas in light of
recent events and continuing to develop
this idea that the city should be a
network of community networks we look to
the Past when particularly 18th 19th
century where communities were where
people live work played interacted
created etc thinking to the Future
distributed energy systems food water
data mobility public policy and and
grappling with what does this mean for
us today now Paris is actually an
interesting city that unlike most new
cities it's a it is a network of
neighborhood the 20 around these month
and outside of every door essentially
within a few minute walk our physicians
and pharmacies and food networks
this is a study we did a while ago the
transportation survey at at MIT looking
at the movements of people every day
into the district now we looked at this
in terms of energy consumption but you
could imagine infected people spreading
the virus to people in the community in
the surrounding areas daily and we
looked at what happened if we if the
Volpe center was created an opportunity
to add all of the amenities and the
device er diverse housing that was
sorry to allow Kendall Square to be a
real compact innovation district where
people lived and worked and played how
do you get there we're thinking about
dynamic algorithmic zoning regulations
this is a conventional zoning you have
separated functions shopping area
residential business area in a
high-density city of subway networks
that connect them all now if he created
functional autonomy like many of the
older cities have to some degree you
reduce the commuting between those
districts and allow for more local
access and in the event of a pandemic
you can more easily isolate that
district and still maintain walkable
access to all the local amenities shops
and food and health care etc something
that most people in the u.s. do not have
so the Kendall Square property is
controlled by relatively few number of
people corporations and international
property developers only a few functions
are ever built but if we could move
towards a dynamic incentive process with
real-time data feeds that would promote
pro-social land use so you could have
housing in sync with the job grocery
stores pharmacy daycare community health
center think all the things we don't
have in Kendall Square and this could
all be adjusted according to changes in
technology or economic conditions social
conditions or whatever and the goal
there would be to achieve a kind of
Civic homeostasis something I'll talk a
little bit more in a minute now one of
the things we're looking at is having
layers of visualizations so here red bad
green good red in this case is walkable
lack of walkable access to parks so you
can dynamically look at different layers
of walkable access healthcare mass
transit etc so I can think we then I
think we need to think about is privacy
by design open data networks we've done
a lot of work with telecom data we have
analyzed three years of telecom data
from from Andorra we can have a pretty
good understanding of patterns of living
and working where people gather where
they move kind of work that Esteban
presented but it's not really X
accessible in a real-time manner and an
agile enough manner to deal with the
realities of a pandemic and Ramesh
talked about one application that for
contact tracing we're one project we're
just beginning is to think about how we
can address the economic issues in
particular in this case how to get a
factory back to work during a pandemic
and there are three components that we
think are important one is the contact
tracing but also immunity credentials so
you can establish the status of an
employee entering the workplace
Bluetooth beacons in the workplace
fine-grained understanding of movement
and activity and finally an agent-based
Simmons emulation that would allow you
to minimize transmission while
maintaining productivity as little study
we did for a factory looking at how
people queue how they're scheduled etc
and I think this eventually could be if
quite a powerful tool to look at
different scenarios places of living as
workplace and healthcare hubs just like
Beth showed this is the reality of
working at home for many people for many
of my students and staff that have young
families this is the reality they're
living we we have been looking at
different strategies for making housing
smaller much more affordable but to
dynamically reconfigure according to
need beds for example that convert to
living areas but what has happened
recently is we realize that the the home
really needs to be a much more carefully
designed workplace and healthcare note
my brother who's an oncologist shifted
from meeting people in person to all
meetings by zoom
literally in the last week in this case
is the small highly designed office with
a zoom green screen lots of ideas we can
do urban mobility I mean this is the
reality of transit in most cities not
exactly the the mode of transit that you
would ideally have in an epidemic we've
if you can create these more functional
integrated functionally autonomous
districts and you can imagine all kinds
of new modes now we've of course having
to question the workability and a
pandemic of shared systems where
multiple people are touching in this
case shared three-wheeler or or the blue
bikes that we have in Boston interesting
issue anyway with these and many more
innovations one can imagine ways that
you can move from a fairly dysfunctional
community to one that is much more
resilient resilient we have different
ways of analyzing it but in this case
we're looking at environmental
performance and resilient as a function
of density dizer diversity proximity and
we can introduce different innovations
and and begin to to model what the the
impact might be algorithmic zoning with
dynamic incentives transformable live
workplaces tokenize fractional ownership
I didn't have time to talk about but
that's another important piece
production near consumption also and you
can see if we do this right you can have
the environmental performance go improve
basically co2 emissions being reduced in
resilience going up and I'll just end
with this if I have a minute so this is
the notion of moving from fragile
systems to resilience so what's fragile
that become apparent in the last
literally a few months over optimized
supply chains we need to move to
production their consumption data
networks designed for corporate not
societal interest we need to move to
prime
by design open access rigid living and
working places moved to more
transformable adaptable places lack of
close proximity to resources we need to
move to a kind of Civic homeostasis and
functional autonomy unsafe mass transit
transitioned quickly to walkability
multiple lightweight modes and maybe
most importantly we now have complex
systems with single points of failure
and we need to move to much more
distributed systems with redundancy so
rethinking urban resilience in a post
pandemic world thank you
great thank you very much Ken so all
really good can you stop the screen
share here
so Ken Larson he's at MIT also can send
an email we have a couple of questions
and we have about five minutes to do
them so I'll just begin that so there's
a question to Kevin Oh
what's your most optimistic and
pessimistic scenario for next year so in
brief we're already above my 5% lower
bound for a number of deaths but we're
several orders of magnitude below my 95
percent upper bound for likely deaths
we're not gonna get a widespread widely
distributed vaccine by before a year
from now that is we might have one that
works by December but scale up and
manufacturing to make hundreds of
millions of billions of doses is gonna
take much longer so my most optimistic
scenario is the first vaccines work
they're really really effective we also
find that florican works well enough to
start saving lives hopefully I'll run
trials on the closest amide and REM does
appear hopefully we'll roll out the sort
of safe paths and automated contact
tracing in a privacy-preserving way in
the next month and that will really hit
it down will improve hygiene people will
take this seriously and we'll get a
reprieve maybe because of seasonality
doesn't unfortunate look like that's
happening much but it might help so
that's the optimistic scenario then we
might be able to
get to a position in most of the world
where China is now that is keeping it
under control at a low burden of
infection until we get a vaccine very
quickly worst-case scenarios we're added
to find disadvantage relative to
countries that can do that because we
can't create privacy and freedom
preserving tools that are as effective
as the centralized authoritarian kind I
would say that's worse than any death
toll that I could give you that's right
good good and we also have to consider
that there is trade-off as if you throw
the economy in the depression
then he's not a short visa death rates
from other things go up pretty
dramatically too so it's sort of a lot
of wicked trade-offs there so the second
question is for Ramesh asking to clarify
the difference between public data used
in your version one and version two how
would I use it in v1 to be safer
yes so in terms of v1 and v2 the notion
is that you can achieve privacy in two
ways either you can do all the
calculations on your phone and for
healthy user that creates privacy
automatically or use the computational
methods to contact the server and do
some you know check for any intersection
with an infected person so in we would
be - all the all the calculations happen
on the phone so as you as you saw
Governor Baker in Massachusetts just
announced yesterday that they're going
to use a lot of talent from Harvard to
start doing analog contact tracing which
we were not doing as well is the whole
organization being sprung up in many
states now to do analog contact tracing
and that information will start coming
out in the next few days
and it's already happening in many Asian
countries and then we are working with
whu-oh to see how this can also be
implemented in Africa and in South
America so it's pretty exciting to see
that you know all these governments who
are changing the protocols they start
realizing redacted and possibly
encrypted data of infected individuals
and ask em instead I think we are it is
very interesting window of opportunity
where we even if we cannot scale the
testing as much as we can all we need is
fever trace and isolate if this fever we
can conservatively assume it's because
of kovat 19 and then just use that to
create an early warning system for
anybody else who might have come in
contact with and consider the function
and as a as kent said if you want to
start using it for factories and
workplaces that's a good enough early
warning system that will that will
prevent us from being kind of wholesale
shutdowns and we can do this selective
interventions in those cases that's
super something kevin said to me earlier
was that while sort of full testing
won't be available for a while
temperature sensing is something like
eighty eight percent effective that's
right and in part it's because the flu
has died out completely because of the
social distancing so that's some good
news get those thermo sensors go
everywhere the next question is to me
Beth and Esteban but I'm just gonna give
it to Beth and Esteban and it's Oh
thoughts about how culture and social
class affect social interaction patterns
during the hammer dance and better
future how do we address this I'll just
say one quick thing I think that one of
the things that I've noticed is that
social interactions online are going to
move from being what I would say very
have been very stilted right like you
either have a very very social
interaction domain or you have the
stilted domain of workplace interactions
and I think what you're gonna see is
that those two things look more alike
than before
and that may be somewhat good and
somewhat bad in that you know people
really enjoy the separation of work and
home right that's that's one of the
things we sort of hold dear we're like
okay I'm gonna leave my workplace and
I'm gonna go home and that's my space
for myself and my family and and I'm
gonna leave work behind and so we have
to be looking at what those two things
look like together I think ken had a
great picture there we have the person
in the class sits there doing
telemedicine while the couch and so
forth that's a very there's gonna be a
very hard social transition for some
people to make who really appreciate
that separation so I think it's
something you have to appreciate from a
mental health point of view just from a
societal separation point of view and
those things are gonna look more blended
than ever and it's gonna be hard for
people to make the adjustment so I'm
just gonna note that and I'll let
Esteban say yeah let me just come in
real quick and then give it to Esteban
so if you look at really wealthy people
they mix business and social all the
time so they're never not in business
but they're never not in social also and
and to make that work require there's a
lot of sort of self discipline and
entrepreneurial spirit sort of figure
out which are not seen and go after it
and so that may be the sort of core of a
lot of the transition is companies need
to stop you know ordering people around
like their routines and and really you
know walk the walk of you've got to let
your employees the people who work with
you be true partners and entrepreneurs
so that they
can build these sort of things because
you can't control that that's the bomb
tell us your thoughts about this up your
your muted Esteban sorry about that
I mean trying to get the hint of this so
because we have been working on
inequality for a long time and the one
immediate thing that we did is to look
at groups which are affected more by
social distancing I mean the fact that
they can do we don't know that they can
afford it the the second thing is the
source of those groups which are
affected more by actually their epidemic
and the preliminary source that we have
for New York is that obviously poor
people cannot afford to social
assistance as a rich people as a wealth
video with the people and although
income is actually one of the I mean you
can see that the main driving
demographic trade is syncopation we can
see for example the people that have low
education at a time and are still going
outside and going and working at the
groceries and actually working in the
supply chain because those those jobs
are basically physical on their low paid
and those are the ones and the people I
have more that let's say college or
bachelor studies they are staying home
that's what it was that can social
distance themselves also the number of
people that in fact the recent data
about New York by census tract you can
see that there are more infections and
more people going to the hospital in
poorer areas that rich area so this is
actually something that happened every
see sort of the flu even though during
the season of the flu even though people
get infected by by the by the floor the
number of people that go to hospital is
much larger in low income groups dying
so not only the flu but also the corona
virus affecting more these no income
groups so I think for the better future
we have to realize that this is
happening that parts of our society
pockets both in terms of Education and
also income which are differently
affected by by the epidemics and we
don't we have to
we don't have to leave them behind
because the chances are that these
people are gonna be closing they're in
their groups but I have help so we have
to actually keep in mind that this this
communities are more affected by both
the social distancing and also the
epidemics Jeremy sandy thank you yeah
definitely something to keep in mind we
need to think about different strategies
for different socio-economic groups so
the final question is to Kent and the
question as New York's doing a lot of
what you suggest that wire why is New
York hit so hard well that's a very good
question and and cities like Singapore
Seoul Hong Kong Shanghai where were not
hit nearly as hard and I think the main
differences they acted very quickly with
really aggressive testing and it wasn't
just Cogan 19 testing they set up fever
clinics they take your temperature they
did CT scans they would give you a flu
test and if if flu wasn't identified
then they would give you a Koba 19 test
if you were positive for that they
didn't send you home because 80% of the
transmission apparently happened in
households to other family members they
sent you to a place to recuperate in
isolation and New York didn't do any of
that
I mean we've New York is much more
aggressive than Florida or Georgia and
they way they will be hit there is I
think it's just a lack of a lack of
leadership and an inability to get ahead
of this striking you see the people's
descriptions about Singapore and places
like that and the temperature sensors
are everywhere every time you go in a
building every single time and as Kevin
was saying those are actually
surprisingly effective yeah
and then if you had a high temperature
they immediately gave you flu tests
regular flu tests hold you off gave you
this flu test if you didn't have flu you
were isolated they didn't have to test
you for Cobra
cuz weren't a lot of options a tabloid
as you said they don't send you home
they send you someplace for we need to
sort of up our game everywhere I think
we've been a little lazy as as a culture
so an interesting issue sandy is a lot
of people quite at say deficit he's the
problem I mean these high-density cities
actually managed it really effectively
there were single points of control when
you would enter into an apartment
building or an office building in Hong
Kong as you say they would do an
electronic fever test but they also had
hand-washing stations you couldn't enter
the building with it or leave the
building for that matter without washing
your hands or or disinfecting them but
we don't do any of that so those like
seems like things that we have to like
really make a priority wearing masks is
another one I know that helps yeah
notice in the grocery store near me just
recently they started having a hand
sanitizing station right in front at the
front door which is a good move but a
little late okay folks online thank you
for tuning in thank all of you for great
talks it's it's very synergistic I think
we're all coming to some sort of vision
of the new future now we have to work on
that and build it so thank you all and
have a good day take care thanks Andy
thank you Andy